Attention! I am Moving!

Attention! I am Moving!
To http://astraptomusic.blogspot.com/
Because I am phasing out the immature username "fernsareourfriends" and introducing the username I've been integrating since February, Astrapto. I just need to switch Facebook (if that's possible) and YouTube.
Follow me on Twitter. Be grateful I'm not switching to Wordpress.
Thank you, the three people that may have read a post!

Right-Hand Shortcomings

So over the past year I've thought a lot about right-hand technique for the bass. When I started playing in Bikers' Church, I realized that I always descended strings with my index finger, and always ascending strings with my middle finger. Hammer-ons and pull-offs raking with my index finger came easily and unconsciously for me. Rapid three note per string ascending scales while plucking every note are difficult for me because I can't seems to ascend with my index finger automatically. I don't have the muscle memory in that regard required to play at high speeds. The basic three-finger galloping came easy, but the sixteenth notes were harder. Billy Sheehan, Alex Webster, and John Myung repeat 321 in a polyrythm of sorts, but that requires automation and flies into chaos if you try to think about it. I think that it would take a ton of practice to not have to think about string skipping at all while using that method. Alex says to practice it until you can't tell the sonic difference between finger, which pretty much means build up a comparable callous on your ring finger. I have yet to do that. I need to try playing with 1 and 3 more, because John Myung suggested doing that on his VHS that I watched on YouTube. No wonder he practices for six hours a day; he practices one thing with an infinite variety of variations (redundant language) like left and right hand fingerings.
I started using the Steve DiGiorgio/Sean Malone method (both fretless metal bassists, although Sean is a composer and Phd) for sixteenth notes, which is 1232. I started with 3212, but that got old. In between this technique and the 321 approach, I tried 123 repeating like Stephen Fimmers (or it could be 132, I shuld check YouTube). Firefox isn't spellchecking for some reason, as you have already detected. Before all that, I tried Matt Garrison/Hadrien Freud/modern jazz virtuoso version, which uses the thumb and first three fingers. Honestly, I prefer 4321, but it becomes a problem because of varying tone and string tension within the last few inches of the string. Also I'm practicing double-thumbing, but only so I can use it in metal. I don't even call this slap, and I don't like the way Victor and Marcus use it. After three tracks on a Marcus Miller CD I got from the library, I was sick of "slap" bass. Speaking of which, I'm not even gong to try to slap publicly (good thing I proofread!) anymore, because I don't hold my thumb parallel to the string. I did this so I could do some muting, but it looks like I'll just do left-hand muting.
Just for fun: I can play decently with a pick, but I can pick way faster using a fake pick like Bernard Edwards.
So that's that. I think I'll work on sixteenth note triplets using double-thumbing and all fingers. Also I'll work on using 23, 24, 2343, 431, and 124.
Boring post for non-bassists.

Jazz

So as it turns out, I'm a n00b at jazz. My teacher is the best in the area, and he's teaching me jazz. He talks about how he never wants to play the same thing twice, and being "free" and improvising everything in a set structure. I just have the wrong mindset. I like progressive metal, where you manipulate the structure and play the same thing every time, note for note. You could have a jamming section, of course, but all the harmonies, unison riffs, overlapping time signatures, dense chords, and dynamics are static. Dynamics are static? You play the song pretty much the same way every time. Because when you've got four time signatures and two keys happening at once, you don't decide to play out of time, or go into thumb position, or do tri-tone subs. But with jazz, oh no, you better play the song different every time, just keep spewing out ideas like a never ending fountain that never freezes up from boredom or nervousness. That's where my problem is; sure, give me five minutes and I'll make a sweet walking bass part that doesn't always land on roots and that uses little motifs and that creates a flowing line, but I will play that part every single time I play the song. If I want to get freaky, I'll add additional passing chromatics or muted upbeats. For Frog & Toad, I wrote out the lines where I just had slashes. I played those lines all eight shows, and they were awesome. But today when Ed busted out "My Funny Valentine" and said "Walk to this (n00b)", I definitely was just playing roots and fifths and I was lucky if I hit a chord tone on the beat, let alone make a fluid line. Registration for the spring semester is soon, should I take jazz band? I do not wish to be a n00b. And I will be. I was just utterly defeated my my lack of mastery today. It was pathetic. Jazz is not how I think, I'll find the best way to play a passage, then play it the best way every time until I think of a new best way. Floundering over and over? No, thanks, I'll prefer to sound good then "fresh."

Pillar

So Pillar released a new album in September called Confessions. I got it from the library a couple of days ago. I've this band ever since hearing "Fireproof" on a Christian rock compilation and buying the special edition of Where Do We Go From Here. When The Reckoning and For The Love of the Game came out, I was surprised. For my favorite bands back in 2005 or so, which were Steven Curtis Chapman, KJ-52, Switchfoot and Relient K, I couldn't wait for new albums and checked for news all the time. But for bands that didn't mean too much to me, like Pillar, I'm surprised when I come back later and their discography has changed. Kind of like Kutless. They released To Know That You're Alive without my knowledge, and upon hearing it I was very happy that the average tempo seemed to exceed 100 bpm. Anyway, I liked The Reckoning a lot (I waited for the special edition of that, too) but was hugely disappointed with The Love of the Game. The album art looked cool, but it made me think that "The Game" meant being a gladiator. What kind of a title is that? It's supposed to be secret appeal-to-secular-market code for "The passion of the pursuit of Jesus Christ", but it sounds more like a documentary by Valeisha Butterfield to me. Well anyway, the "passion" part of the non-title sticks out disproportionatly, since almost all the songs are just tailor-made to pump up the crowd when playing live. I mean just look at the lyrics for "Turn It Up" (largely sampled from other artists in a Portnoy-esque manner): "Turn it up/Throw your hands in the air/All the people everywhere/Let me hear you say/Woah, oh, oh, woah, oh, oh/Yeah, Yeah" Genius, right?
When a band says stuff like "throw up your (rawk) fist" or "Whoooaaaaa" incessantly for the crowd to participate and feel happy (DragonForce), "Everybody jump" or some reference to "tonight" meaning "a concert" , they are eliminating room for them to improvise on stage. What if you don't WANT to have everyone "get crazy" at a certain part? Too bad, you've been playing this song for years and those are the lyrics everybody knows. In case you weren't already tired of playing the same songs on tour year after year, feel free to undercut yourself by scheduling spontaneous moments. My worship team schedules spontaneous prayer in services all the time. Anyway, Confessions has nothing too special on it. I don't like the ratio of metal to ballads, and "Shine" sounded like a cover even before I checked who wrote it. The bassist and drummer have gone off, perhaps to restart Seven Places. That's a bummer, because Lester gave the band a lot of personality. "Kal-el" I didn't like right off the bat because on the pretension involved in naming yourself after Superman (besides, who needs a stage name in Christian rock?). After seeing the Reckoning DVD and playing some of his parts, I grew to like him. Oop, there he goes, off with Lester to focus on Stars Go Dim. Maybe they'll win some Doves that way. So much for metal, you guys. So much for skill.
I leave now to type "homework". Actually I just typed it. So now I'll go complete it.

All right.

I think you're due for another post. Not that anyone reads these.
Why do I not post? I blame Twitter.
So I need to interview some people for a podcast feature for my Audio Production class, I'm thinking a Young Musicians type thing with John Bradford and Grant Woell, maybe Will Mesler.
I've started trying to develop a career as a "professional" bass player, like independently playing for musicals and stuff. The worship pastor at my church recommended me to the local company- you know what, I linked to LCC in the last one so I don't even care if you know where in the world I am. You can find out from a Google search, and besides, no one reads this. Let's try some paragraphs.
The Holt/Dimondale Civic Players put on "A Year With Frog & Toad" October 15-17 and 22-24. You know the series of kid's books that no kid actually buys? Well it's a conglomeration of various adventures. My favorite actor was Toad. It was interesting to see what he would do differently every night. You know what? I think I was waiting to post until I had enough Twitter-sized snippets to make a blog. I forgot about my tendency to share ALL of my thoughts on a particular topic. Anyway, I could've posted a blog post every night with the summary of how the show went. I think that the best shows were the 17th (at night) and the 23rd (also at night). My bandmates are so awesome; should I say "are awesome", because they are still awesome? Except they aren't my bandmates anymore. Left to right on the picture: Me; The flute player, I forgot her name. Emails tell me it's Nicole Smith. I'll refrain from revealing email addresses, although I like doing mailtos. She had the flu on the 23rd, I think. Her sub was really good;
Kristin or Kristen the piano player. I could get their last names from the emails if I felt like it, but would they appreciate it? Would they care? I think that once you're a legal adult, you don't really need to worry about having your name inline. It is the future, after all. Kristen Choi is also playing at my church next week. This week we're playing some hymns with some sweet chords. Anyway Kristen is pretty awesome, she's actually my age. In the first rehearsal I was struggling to play some of the parts, but she was playing my part and other stuff with her left hand! She was used to playing by herself though, so she rushed a lot. Moving on;
Doug Wozniak is an awesome drummer that is also seventeen and plays in the LCC Jazz Band. I don't know if I should do that next term or wait until I'm better. I'm still pretty new at this jazz thing, and I don't want to be a royal no0b. Maybe I'll continue to take private lessons and take the lesson class at LCC, so I'll get twice as much instruction. The people in the band say that Ed Fedewa is the best bassist around here, so I'm in good hands. Like a good neighbor who loves saving you money. Anyway, he's very talented. I hope my grammar is not awful with these semicolons...In other news, I decided I like DragonForce. The key to enjoying music is to open up your emotions and adjust your expectations. Anyway;
Jeananne Nichols is the band director at Olivet College and was the music director for the play. It's incredible how effectively she coordinates, coaches, educates, and performs. She is really knowledgeable and generous and accomodating; she wasn't as mad as she should've been when I had to run home during a rehearsal to take the A string off my six string and put it on my Ibanez. That was extremely unprofessional of me. I will tell you about the six-string later. See that? I put a hyphen in it that time. Doctor Nichols hosted the band at her house and provided a delicious dinner and some awesome Wii action. I discovered I'm a good cow racer.
;
Seth Story is the trombone player. He's a great improviser. He goes to Olivet and he was one of the older musicians at 27.
Matt Meeuwse is a really nice guy, and a great trumpet player. He had so many mutes, it was crazy. He's somewhere in his twenties, also goes to Olivet, and he's student teaching for music. I wish I could provide more information, but when I start talking to people I tend to prattle on about annoying stuff that no one really cares about. So I'll leave all that to here. And Twitter.
So this is based off of my fernsareourfriends@yahoo account, but I'm trying to switch everything to astrapto@gmail.com. I downloaded winPenPack and I'm trying to use Thunderbird. Olivet is affiliated with the Reformed Lutheran Church, but it's pretty clear that they're not a Christian college.
Jay Briggs is an older dude who plays clarinet and alto sax. (I think) He's a cool guy, didn't talk with him too much. I respect his playing, his maturity, and modesty. Oh did you see that, I didn't include the "his" the third time. I've been listening to "Into Eternity" a lot today. I can't find my 1/8" cord that hooks my iPod to the car stereo, so I burned a Between the Buried & Me compilation on CD. Fun Stuff.
Kenny Lowe is a lot of fun. He's a very adept musician, with a lot of knowlege about bands and stuff. He was talking about jamming with Doug. He also likes Dream Theater and Rush, so you know, awesome dude. He's engaged and dyes his hair silver. Which is awesome. He plays tenor sax (I think it's tenor anyway; let's call it contralto).
I got a lot of compliments on my playing, but to be realistic, This was stuff I practiced for hours and read off of a music stand. It's not like I had it memorized (except for four of the hardest pages; after practicing them for two hours I liked to play them twice as fast), or I was doing walking bass just based on the chord chart. I was not improvising. I was just playing the part. So I sincerely appreciate those compliments, but I accept them in stride.
I wanted to go see Dysrythmia and STATS at Mac's Bar last night, but Mom wouldn't have it. She then proceeded to explain how even being near a bar is sinful (I'm exaggerating) but failed to provide a way to succeed as a band while avoiding bars. She also cannot explain exactly what commandment I would hypothetically be violating. But I will do her the honor of not ripping her opinion to shreds. My friend Grant Woell played there earlier. Really, I couldn't see much of either show because I finally returned to Bikers' Church after a month of rehearsing for the musical on Thursdays. I made some mad connections.
My pastor and his wife, who is one of the best musicians I know, is putting on the church Christmas play and a fundraiser for Riverwalk Theater. I will be in the movie and the puppet team for church, and I will be onstage as the house bassist in a 1953 radio variety show. My dad was also invited, but turned down the offer because of the time commitment. (He sings in the "Brown Bag Choir", our church's infantile moniker for the choir that sings on the two holidays. Guess) (So named because their practices conveniently occur right after church, so people must nring their own lunch to church with them, commonly in a brown bag. I hope my commas are properly sequestered. I don't care about that word choice.) I will finish this tonight!!
Also my dad detests secular Christmas carols. I don't mind them, I think they're legitimate. Some issues with being on stage as the radio show's band:
1) I have long hair. Everyone I know has been telling me to cut since around March. This does not bother me. In metal, hair is street cred. I want to be like James Lomenzo in that regard. However, I don't enjoy that my hair is the default topic of conversation. Since I don't see my old friends very often, there's a noticible difference in length, which they must in turn comment upon. ("upon"?) Happy Birthday to the GROUND!!! Check out Scale the Summit's Progressive Nation blog. (Oh how I wanted to go to that. But it will be a year or two before my parents let me go to a place which MAY SERVE ALCOHOL!!!!!!! by myself, and they won't go to a "headbanger" concert with me. My summary may be a bit harsh. But exaggeration generally represents emotion, not the facts. So the injustice administered upon me (there it is again!) is out of sync with my experience. I bore even myself. Suffice to say, the Beatles' hairdos were controversial in the sixties, and both length and time are altered in a disfavorable (?) direction here. Might I hide it in a hat? Hats were standard. I want a milkshake hat. As opposed to a beer one. I am boring once more.
2) Gear. Electric bassists in '53 were very rare, and only played single-coil P-Basses. Crossovers from guitar played with a pick, so I'll pretend to be an upright crossover. (That means "in good standing".) Elderly may sponsor us (fat chance, I say) which may prevent me from resorting to our drummer's Squier. Actually I'd probably use my pastor's P-Bass-Mustang hybrid that I played for my first year back in eighth grade. Speaking of the drummer for our worship team, he'll have to play traps instead of his electric set. ("Traps"? Why this terminology?)
Period clothing might be a problem. (the prequel to maternity clothing?) I'll just spend ten dollars (I refuse to say "bucks") at Hidden Treasures and call it good/let it be done with. Can you read this with all the self-referential parenthesis?
I tire of this post. Six string post sometime later (no hyphen that time).

An assemblage of blather

I am sooooo sorry for not posting in over a month! College starts on Thursday and I'm excited. I got department approval to take a private lesson class even though I'm not a music major, but that would exceed the credit hours allowed by my scholarship. I'm primarily at this community college to get free liberal arts credits for transfer to Berklee in two years. I'm pretty excited about my Audio Production class. Yes, DT's attendance to B3z3rkl33 may have been the back-breaking straw.
Anyway, I haven't updated in a while. It's not because I don't think about music, because it's almost all I think and talk about, much to my sister's chagrin.
So James LaBrie can hit an F#5 in "Learning to Live", right? but my dad despises his voice above an E4. Like in "Solitary Shell", his voice starts getting bad when he sings the F#4 in the middle of the chorus. Great song, it influenced a little organ rhythm I wrote alternating between 13/8 and 12/8. Of course, it's based off of "Solsbury Hill" by Peter Gabriel.
Stu Block of Into Eternity is now my favorite vocalist, because he can death growl and he has a Bb5. Myles Kennedy can do at least a D5 and played guitar for Sadus on the road, so he's way better than his work with Alter Bridge indicates. (I also like his voice a lot)
Will Shaw is a YouTube singer of the band Athem, who is pretty awesome. We sings on this cover of Metropolis, and hits a G here.
"Beyond this life", "Home" (a song by dad reviles because of the singing...I love the composition) and "The Test that Stumped Them All" have majorly influenced this song I'm writing that starts in 9/8 with a metal feel (I'm picturing "Awake"-style vocals for this part) and then does some other stuff. I often write away from my instrument because a notebook is more portable, so that results in rhythmic ideas being jotted down. When I'm with the instrument I often write out tab and such, for riffs. But unless I get a dash of inspiration, my music is composed with a more cerebral process. Thinking rather than feeling. But I'm working on it. And playing with the instrument (ok, we'll call it "my bass", shall we?) isn't really inspiration, either, just what comes naturally. But that can be a better vehicle of emotion than a pencil. Listen to me, I'm incoherent and I don't care! I'm thinking about doing "The Test that Stumped Them All" as an audition to Berklee It's hard to find one that's the ideal length.
But Ian Gillan has been recorded singing a G#5! Okay, stop and watch this video now. The description is what's really important.
Andy Kuntz of Vanden Plas was in Jesus Christ Superstar also, and can sing an F#5 like LaBrie. He's involved in all kinds of theater stuff.
Gyorgy Szomor did a great job in the Hungarian version, and the lead singer of Khallice was in the Mexican and Brasilian one. Portuguese and Spanish are very related. I can get an F#4 if I'm lucky. My bottom note is usually a D2, which is as low as Gillan has been recorded. His range might be larger than that. Actually I've tried pretty hard to find the extremes of my singing. One day I could do a shaky B1 and a squeaky D5. I'm just saying I produced the pitch, not that it sounded good. Alfred Romero of Dark Moor hits a high G#5 at the end of "The Silver Key," which is incredible. He doesn't do it live though, at least in the two videos I could find that doesn't cut off the end. I'm starting to think that John Myung is a drag on Dream Theater, like a robot: sure he can play those shredding unison lines, and rock those octaves with his weird tone, but what does he do for the band creatively? His lyrics are cool as poetry, but they aren't accepted by the other members because they don't fit the prearranged melodies (which seem to be getting suckier of late). I find that writing lyrics first is easier. You can tell most of his compositional contributions because he plays them solo. The beginning of "The Glass Prison" and "A Rite of Passage", and "Lifting Shadows off a Dream" are just are just effects-drenched lameness; the riffs aren't even cool! He tries to be harmonic with his harmonics i.e. adding 11s to the chord- he never cares about anything but the root and the octave most of the time! His solo part (an introduction of a riff) later on in "The Glass Prison" is a flurry of pentatonic drivel, and his solo in "Dance of Eternity" is laughable! No musical value. His solo in Metropolis Pt 1 is bland; once again it consists of roots, octaves of roots, and a 11th, just for fun. Oh, then he moves is up! How inspiring. Whenever Mike Portnoy does one of his crazy behind-the-scenes videos, Myung is in a secluded background, practicing diligently. He doesn't contribute that much to Dream Theater's music at all- he says he focuses on mastering his instrument....why? So he can feel happy and not release anything worthwhile to the general public? Sure, he can play faster and cleaner then he could back in Berklee, but his parts have actually gotten worse- and they weren't much to speak of then! His tone is still reliably weird, when he's actually audible. He doesn't have a solo career or anything to showcase his "mastery" attained by a fanatical devotion to practicing- even going so far as to warm-down after a performance! Chris Squire was inspirational to bassists for being a musical equal among his band members, and Geddy Lee is obviously a huge contributor to Rush. I think the verse part for "Learning to Live" is his finest moment: odd rhythms, interesting harmonic structure....the line he uses to introduce the final section is kind of cool, but it seems like he improvises his parts because, they aren't developed at all. And his intro to "Medicate" in the song "Octavarium"? (That song is a must-listen) Ungood! Not only is it pentatonic, it's minor pentatonic! While we're at it, shall we hit every bass moment? The beginning of "Panic Attack": cool, even if it uses the ultimate polyrhythm a little extensively. Sure, he can keep up with Petrucci's riffs....but what does he do to harmonize them? Boring. I can't remember hearing him on the new record very muchl....the bass instrumental track must be laughable! He has mad endurance- check out Dark Eternal Night, Constant Motion, or In the Prescence of Enemies Pt - but he doesn't give the music any personality, he just doubles the guitar forever. He plays like a session musician. But Dave LaRue's playing is way more creative! Listen to "New Millenium": here we have an odd-time bass part with a not-too-unusual tone, but harmonically it consists of...a root...its octave...and the minor seventh below the root. Interesting. He should trade places with Nathan East. The "Home" line is okay, but not ideal. In all these songs, John Petrucci and Mike Portnoy make the lame bass thing awesome, like the the beginnings of "The Glass Prison" and "Voices." Plus Petrucci just completely dominates that "Home" riff. I think Petrucci is the best in that band, followed by Mike. I like Jordan's piano, as in "One Last Time" and other songs. He plays like a musician during piano solos, not a baboon brandishing a stick. "Burning My Soul" is cool because he outlines the diminished scale, even though the rhythm is sad. His tone is reminiscent of Alex Webster, a far better bass player. John Myung just does too much supporting and not enough thinking on his own.
Disclaimer: I don't actually think the part in "Lifting Shadows Off a Dream" is dumb; just the choice of the 11th. His grasp of harmonics is inspiring. I have an unfortunate habit, you may have noticed, of viciously cutting at any part of something I don't like. All in all, John Myung is a great bassist (although overrated by association) and I admire his dedication, choice of basses, and overall appearance. I heard that the band's battle with EastWest Records in the mid-nineties affected Myung's stage presence severely. His video Progressive Bass Concepts helped me with playing huge continuous scales, but I think the whole arpeggiation ordeal was droll. I wonder why he doesn't talk very much. Quick side note: I find it doubtful that Geddy Lee could keep up with Blotted Science's experimental technicality, so why would Ron Jarzombek want to work with him? Ron Jarzombek seriously might be my musical hero. We think so alike- he's just got more knowledge and experience. I can't wait for his DVDs- I may buy them even though I don't play guitar. I need to learn how to write twelve-tone music- I still need to listen to more. There are 479, 001, 600 different ways to arrange the chromatic scale. I should be like Ron and turn that into a riff. I wonder how many Schoenberg and Bartok and those guys have used already. It seems that I have a bad habit of linking to things the second time they are mentioned.
So now I forgot about why I originally posted. Oh, cool band. I've been looking for Christian Deathgrind, but the musicality just doesn't compete with, say, Origin. But death metal lyrics are just so satanic and disgusting, I can't be associated with that evil even if nobody can understand the lyrics. Christian deathgrind bands have good lyrics, but where is technicality! Yes, that is important to me, and it's important to properly execute the genre. Living Sacrifice has a lot of odd-meters, and their vocalist is sweet. He reminds me of the dude from Demon Hunter, my first Christian metal band. The dude from Arsis is an acquired taste. I'm happy at Spencer Chamberlain's improvement. Wow I am a rambler. Check this and this and this out.
Spiral Architect is sweet. They remind me of Spastic Ink, only they have a regular singer. I think you have to be a little bit crazy to regularly sing for one of these bands when you don't play any instruments. Well their first singer didn't, but I guess they fired him for being too insane before recording their only album. Like Blotted Science and Outworld, they have one album but many lineup changes. Their recording quality isn't too good, but the bass is actually audible. (Like Spastic Ink or Between the Buried and Me (which is a great band, their new album comes out soon (it features Google Earth album art (I edited this post on October 14th because it was really mean))))
I want to make an album named "Ecstasy of the Hideous", named after a phrase said by a critic of the revolutionary atonal composer Schoenberg. Maybe quote one of his melodies, make it conform to a tonality, add a thirteenth note. Which would be a C. Guess how long the song would be?
I could start a prog metal band named EOTH (as an acronym), but how would you pronounce? "Oth" sounds too much like Dååth, and I'm not sure if I like "ee-oth." Maybe "yoth."Plus, whenever I do something creative I imagine trying to explain it to a certain elderly woman at my church: could I explain it to her satisfaction? Does "Ecstasy of the Hideous" make for a good band name, with its possibly inferred drug reference and uncalled-for adjective?
Because of my dumb computer and wavering Internet connection, I redid all the links for this post like three times. I want to check out the Gigantour and Summer Slaughter DVDs. Man, I wish death metal was not all evil & stuff, because I love the music! My new favorite: Cephalic Carnage. I guess I'll try Extol.
Check out this dude named Trevor T- he's full of sweet links and advice for aspiring independent musicians. Click on a bunch of them. They are cool.
See you later, h0mes.

Obscurity without the "Indie" label?

All right, first I am going to type out a paper on indie culture that I wrote about a year ago, then I will compare it to my musical tastes.

Technically "indie" means "independent," which means an artist that is self-managed, or are managed by a label of any size calling themselves "indie." Since the music, lyrics, pitches and rhythms, don't change (maybe the production quality), it shouldn't be called a genre.
In other words, with today's accessible technology, you can't tell from listening whether or not it's independently made.
"Indie" is more about the culture than the music. It's all about obscurity: If you like stuff no one's really heard of, you win! So it's not about the music at all, the music is just a veil to hide the agenda behind. Oh no he said the word "agenda" that must mean he's an evil haterrrr
Progressive and experimental music, on the other hand, is not obscure because it's lacking in musical skill or creativity. On the other hand, it has too much of those attributes for the general public to handle! Thus, it's about the music, and it just happens to be obscure. If a progressive band can achieve popularity without altering their music, that's great. (See Yes, Pink Floyd and Rush.) But since indie culture revels in obscurity and the music doesn't matter too much, an indie band becoming popular (See Death Cab) is no longer attractive because they no longer bring sought-after glory for liking something obscure.
So progressive and indie- they sometimes overlap. Both are generally obscure, but for different reasons. Both tend to be elitists, but for different reasons.
Indie: Must like stuff no one else does so as to look cool. The actual music they listen to, as long as it's unpopular (for any reason), could be any genre.
Progressive: Likes really good music. Unfortunately most people don't, so the bands are sometimes obscure.